00:00.04 Patrick Harris II Thank you. 00:00.60 Gary Gray All right, that was it? Awesome. Welcome back to Corridor Conversations, the podcast segment on NCTE's Classroom Corridor, sharing expertise and inspiration from elementary teachers. 00:15.10 Gary Gray I'm your host, Gary Argrae Jr. And today we are talking with classroom teacher, interdisciplinary writer, storyteller, author of the first five, ah ah love letter to teachers, 00:30.02 Gary Gray my brother my brother patrick harris how are you how are things 00:38.90 Patrick Harris II Things are well. I feel so excited and grateful to be in conversation with you. know we have not seen each other being in the exhibit hall NCTE, but aren't those where friendships are made? 00:57.44 Patrick Harris II Aren't those where relationships are 00:58.03 Gary Gray it's 00:59.22 Patrick Harris II So I am grateful. I am excited You know, NCTE has such a core place in my being and in my heart. 01:10.09 Patrick Harris II So you and NCTE is a perfect mashup that I'm happy to be a part of today. 01:17.38 Gary Gray How ironic is that? Like so many years ago, we had talked online a little bit. We saw each other. And I mean, I would say every week at some point we talk 01:30.48 Patrick Harris II Yes, yes, about everything. 01:33.23 Gary Gray about everything, about everything. I was so excited to talk to you as always. And, you know, I, I don't know if I've ever told you this, but I do admire what you do for teachers, what you do for students, and just the level of care that you put forward when we are doing the work with children and love for education. So before anything, I just appreciate you so much. And I'm excited to talk talk to you about self-care and all the things that you do to take care of you and your students. So the first question what does self-care look like for someone who gives so much of themselves to others? 02:10.14 Gary Gray how has that vision of care evolved through personality over the years? Because, you know, as people, we evolve, we change, we adjust, et cetera. 02:21.25 Patrick Harris II Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for saying that. And I just appreciate you acknowledging me and caring for me and all the things. Thank you. think, you know, self-care was not a thing we discussed early in my teaching career. I think the goal was to pick something that you loved, right? And you pick something that you loved, 02:48.72 Patrick Harris II you like dive into that. And if you truly love it, then it won't be taking from your cup. Right. And so think early in my teaching career in my first five, right. Like I was really deep into the work I graded on weekends. I, 03:07.07 Patrick Harris II Everything i thought about, every movie I watched, every bookstore I wandered into was through the lens of being a classroom teacher, right? And so I was like constantly, constantly, constantly trying to just like find more ways and innovative ways to be the best teacher that I wanted to, being the best teacher that I wanted to be. 03:29.59 Patrick Harris II because I knew this was my dream. 03:30.13 Gary Gray Hmm. 03:31.37 Patrick Harris II This is where I wanted to end up, where I wanted to be. So I dare not complain about how hard it is. 03:37.52 Gary Gray Hmm. 03:38.63 Patrick Harris II I dare not complain about how challenging the work is because this is what I wanted. 03:39.36 Gary Gray Hmm. 03:43.42 Patrick Harris II And on top of that mindset that I had, which was crafted by TV and crafted by a a family and crafted by my own K-12 experience, I also was in these institutions in my beginning years, as folks have read in my book, that were really about creating an atmosphere of like machinery, right? It's like teaching as a as a factory setup, right? It's like 04:13.84 Gary Gray Mm-hmm. 04:14.20 Patrick Harris II We come in here. This is due on this day. Everything has a thing, right? And much so that you couldn't even make your own copies in some of the schools that I was in. You had to send your copy to a copy person. The copy person would make your copies. It was just a lot going on. 04:28.79 Patrick Harris II So anyway, I say all that to say the older that I got, um more I realized, and it wasn't until I... got to teach overseas that I start to like have a different conversation about self-care. 04:43.16 Patrick Harris II But when I taught in Doha, they said, teachers are not allowed to stay after school, right? 04:48.25 Gary Gray Mm-hmm. 04:48.18 Patrick Harris II You have to go home. You have to, you have to go home. The building is closed and nobody works after, you know, sunset. Right. And that really pushed me as a, as a teacher to start to think about this in a different way. And so, 05:05.27 Patrick Harris II Now, think for me, as somebody who still gives a lot to all institutions, I think, one, I'm talking about it, right? I am having conversations about self-care with myself so that I know what are the things that will truly give me rest, 05:22.10 Patrick Harris II What are the things that's going to give me the opportunity 05:22.84 Gary Gray Mm-hmm. Hmm. 05:25.48 Patrick Harris II to fill up my cup because I can't be the human first teacher that I know students need unless I am like as full as I possibly can. So that's the first thing I'm, I'm reflecting. 05:37.49 Patrick Harris II I think I am like making time to spend with my friends, right? Like that matters to me. They're not going to let me grade while we're out. You know, I am making time to go see horror movies, you know, like, 05:52.77 Patrick Harris II Like doing things that I know won't allow me to be in the presence of my phone, right? Like I love going to the movies. I love hanging out with my friends. I love playing the piano. 06:03.32 Patrick Harris II I love taking walks, right? Like sometimes video games here or there, but really those active things that get me out of the house and that like get me just sitting still for once. 06:14.71 Gary Gray I love that. 06:14.82 Patrick Harris II And the more that I can do that and have the more that I can like just be like, oh, yeah, like this is doing and have those accountability partners, the better I feel. 06:24.29 Gary Gray I love that. And I think it's so interesting that you share like just the machinery that happens. And it's so ingrained in educators how we are often on autopilot, right? We start at a certain time, we finish at a certain time. 06:38.33 Gary Gray And then you have this idea of like, you know, at some point in your career, and I know I had it like of shame of just like, should I be leaving early? Do I have to stay late? Do I have to come in a little bit earlier? 06:50.07 Gary Gray that is a constant thing when you're in schools and and institutions that are, you know, that you are giving so much to, and you're giving so much to your students as well. The second question touches on a little bit of what you added at the end there about like your dedication to students and how you like center them. 07:07.02 Gary Gray specifically the students that are at the margins and the kids who, you know, are really seening for the help. But I guess the question is like, with all of that and the stories that are often unheard, how do you, you know, how do you navigate the emotional weight that teachers have and the practice, what practices help you hold space for both the students' wellbeing and your own? Because you are constantly giving back, constantly reminding students of the things that that you think they should be thinking about within the world? Like, how do you balance the emotional work within all of that? 07:42.78 Patrick Harris II Yeah, man, that's hard. I think for me, the thing that constantly comes to mind is like just this idea of giving students the autonomy over their own rest and their own care, right? 07:58.55 Patrick Harris II can think of one example that happened recently. and So shout out to all those teachers who... 08:08.19 Patrick Harris II It's hot outside, so everybody is like... 08:12.28 Gary Gray Outside? 08:13.57 Patrick Harris II Motorcycles. Do you hear that motorcycle? 08:16.23 Gary Gray I do. 08:17.24 Patrick Harris II Okay, yeah. All right. Thank you. 08:21.82 Patrick Harris II So I think the thing that comes to mind for me is that I enjoy and think it's necessary to push against this capitalist system kind of says that we have to be working at every hour of the day by pushing myself and my students to have more autonomy over our own rest, right? 08:45.63 Patrick Harris II shout out to all those teachers who take on the daunting task of doing like long-term project-based learning. Like those did not, I'm not talking about those like end of the unit product. I'm about the teachers who like say, 08:57.98 Patrick Harris II going be doing this project from like January to June. Like shout out to those teachers. Cause that's hard. Like that's really freaking hard. 09:04.18 Gary Gray hard. 09:05.23 Patrick Harris II You know, many times I've been like, is this worth it? 09:09.52 Gary Gray Hmm. 09:09.62 Patrick Harris II But a couple weeks, so we've been making documentaries all semester and I had students share just like how tired they were like in general. And I could tell by the work that they're turning in that it's just like, it's not the best, you know? 09:26.19 Patrick Harris II And they have gone through so much. They have done so many interviews. They had navigated through so much crash outs or so many crash outs with their groups. And it just was a lot. And I think was just sort of asking them, should we just end the project here and like do a quick reflection and sort of move on, right? Like, feel like y'all have learned a lot. 09:51.92 Patrick Harris II Y'all have done a lot. Y'all have navigated through like, all of the learning outcomes, I think we should just push it forward. 10:02.09 Gary Gray Hmm. 10:03.63 Patrick Harris II And them what they thought of this, right? Like, and I'm just like, I'm clear. Like, I see y'all not working on it. I see y'all rushing through it. 10:10.92 Gary Gray Hmm. 10:11.90 Patrick Harris II Like, help me help you, know? 10:15.64 Gary Gray Hmm. 10:15.87 Patrick Harris II And at the end, they were like, Patrick, we are tired. We are this, but we want to finish what we started, right? I thought that was very admable admirable, you know, that they did want to push it through. 10:27.97 Patrick Harris II But just having the conversation about it's okay to, like, quit this thing, right? Like, and and won't be failures for doing it, right? 10:33.41 Gary Gray Mm hmm. 10:35.47 Patrick Harris II Like, y'all have done a lot of work. I can still grade what do you have, right? I can still tell that y'all learned things based on what we did. So I think from there, like, it's okay. but they're like, no, I want to keep going. 10:48.83 Patrick Harris II this is what we need to get to the end of this thing, right? And so, but just having a conversation, I could tell, unlock doors. 10:53.84 Gary Gray Mm hmm. 10:58.95 Patrick Harris II My classroom is the only classroom that students eat I learned recently, right? Like, students come right in, open up their lunchbox, just be like, Patrick, I gotta have lunch early, you know? 11:04.26 Gary Gray Mm-hmm. 11:08.33 Patrick Harris II And I was just like, so, like, there's, like, a comfortability I'm learning with my classroom that just centers the humanity, right? Like, Yes, you can eat in here. 11:17.53 Gary Gray Mm-hmm. 11:19.00 Patrick Harris II Yes, there are days that you can take some time off. Yes, you can go to the bathroom whenever you like and you don't have to ask permission for what I think is a human right. Right? Like, yes, you can do those things but but because my students are practicing that they have autonomy over their own bodies and over their own rest. 11:34.99 Patrick Harris II And from there, we can kind of continue to, like, you know, navigate boundaries when it comes up. But I never want them to think that I am in control of all of all parts of them because that's just not true. 11:48.07 Patrick Harris II So having the conversation helps. 11:48.67 Gary Gray I love that. i love that. And it's so interesting. it makes makes me think about your book so much and how you talk so much about like human work and how, you know, you have to be reflecting some of the same things that you want within your students and you saying something as simple as like allowing your students to eat in the classroom, go to the bathroom when they want to. 12:07.91 Gary Gray Like it sounds simple in theory, but like, Some teachers struggle to allow simple things like going to the bathroom or eating because you are hungry. 12:21.03 Gary Gray Like these are children. And I see that even as like an early elementary teacher. Like these kids are hungry. They're snacking all the time. All the time. And like allowing them just to have a snack next to them while they're working, like that's what we do regularly. And that is what is normal as a human, right? That is normal and that is human. So I love that. I love that you shared that. 12:43.24 Gary Gray My last question for you is the question I didn't actually tell you that i i was going to ask you. And I just thought about it right now. But you are soon to be PhD student. And I am so excited for you. 12:55.31 Patrick Harris II Woo-hoo! 12:55.58 Gary Gray So excited. 12:55.65 Patrick Harris II Let's go. 12:56.67 Gary Gray So excited for you. 12:58.25 Gary Gray What do do you plan to do? Because I know you. I know you. What are are you plan to do within your PhD to make sure your well-being is taken care of? 13:09.16 Gary Gray Because I know what is going to happen, right? You are going to immerse yourself in the program. You are going to do all things. And you're going do all the things very well. What are some of the things that you will implement because you've done your master's, you've done a lot of work for other educators, for universities. Like, what are you going to during your PhD to help you practice your self-care? 13:32.90 Patrick Harris II Good question, man. Well, thank you for that. I'm so excited to be headed to Michigan State to study Black horror and to really talk about horror as a tool to discuss social justice with young people. 13:48.29 Patrick Harris II Like, I know that sounds so taboo, but we're going be having a different kind of podcast in a couple of years. So I think for me, man, like, 13:54.36 Gary Gray Can't wait. 13:58.11 Patrick Harris II It's going to be my first time in my life, in my adult life, not as a classroom teacher. And I think the thing that I'm looking forward to taking advantage of is the autonomy over my time, right? Like, I don't plan to wake up at 6 a.m. every day or 5 a.m., like, unless I really want to or I plan to go to bed early. Yeah. 14:19.88 Patrick Harris II I plan to like really develop these and new relationships with, you know, my colleagues and my teacher friends or my new ah ah teacher friends. 14:30.38 Patrick Harris II Wow. Well, I guess they are teacher friends, but like my, like, like my fellow PhD students and like figure out some things that we can do like in our college town to like hang out. 14:32.61 Gary Gray Hmm. 14:40.58 Patrick Harris II But the most, like the most important thing that I'm like really excited about, it's like more time to dedicate to, some sort of new hobby, right? 14:50.31 Patrick Harris II Like I often tell people like, what are you, like, like what's something absolutely love, you know? 14:57.80 Patrick Harris II And how do you hang on to that thing? Cause that thing is where your humanity lies. And so I'm, I'm going back and forth right now between learning how to DJ, learning how to like, learning how to play piano or like learning to like paint, you know? 15:13.31 Patrick Harris II And all of those will have like some sort of spooky vibes that like, tie into my future novels, but i i am just excited to, like, use the new space, the new people, and the new time to navigate new ways of resting. 15:30.15 Gary Gray I love that for you. I am, as always, so thankful for you and so excited for you. Where can people find you online? 15:39.88 Patrick Harris II Yeah, you can find me at PresidentPat on Instagram. You can check out my horror work at www.theblackparanormalproject.com. 15:53.50 Gary Gray I appreciate you. 15:55.37 Patrick Harris II Thank you, man. 15:58.67 Gary Gray My God.